Philosophers while having a discussion by Michael Angelo |
Pinoy Atheista [W]e want empirical proof. […]
Above is an excerpt from exchanges I made to an atheist
named Pinoy Atheista (a friendly, and broadminded person) in an FB Forum I am in, the topic talks about proof for
the existence of God.
[Postscript: Everytime I’m dealing with them, I prevent
myself from pulling biblical verses to
make the argument not to be having sounds like making a Sunday sermon (a common
complaint by atheist to theist); also why
appeal to things that they didn’t know and didn’t believe? (Thanks to Prof.
Budziszewski) I believe Prof. Budziszewki is correct to
say that in engaging a discussion to a friendly secular people (Atheist(s) in
particular), bible is not enough, though we do not hold back the bible’s truth;
we can find ways to express this biblical truth apart from the bible itself.]
Thecatholic Point
Sir if i'm not mistaken i mentioned before the existence of metaphysical truth
which cannot be put into an empirical verification BUT we hold it as true... is
it also possible then that God's existence be True since not all truth are
empirically verifiable but TRUE? Knowing it is TRUE using other way of
verification?
Pinoy Atheista Like
what?
Thecatholic Point like
what? hmmm let me give a good sample Do you believe in the laws of logic? Do
you think that if a = b, and b=c that a = c? I’m sure you do. And yet, there is
no empirical evidence that such laws exist.
The problem is not a lack of evidence for God’s
existence, but an arbitrary restraint on the kind of evidence the atheist (like
him) is willing to accept as evidence. By reading his assertion, an
honest mind can posit that he’s trying to point-out that Matter is all that exists PERIOD. There is no God because we
cannot see Him. God does not exist because we cannot detect them
physically by any means of verification we’re aware of.
Clearly, we cannot be wrong to say that Materialism and Scientism
is the cornerstone of the atheist’s worldview, some mistakenly seen these
precept as mere ‘Science’, an assertion that science itself does not posit, it's true yes, that Science claim a true knowledge in so far as a thing is physical and measurable BUT it doesn’t say that the physical world is all there is - science never postulates
as such. Thus it is cogent to say that it is a self-refuting premise.
In the end though we agree that we need evidence,
Empirical evidence is not the only kind of evidence one can appeal to.
The discussion is very diverse, it shifts from one topic
to the other; one Atheist open an issue about the atrocities of Religion as an Anthropology and Sociology Jack
David Eller observed: […] their (Atheists) focus on the dangers of theism, as
opposed to the falsifying of theism, which results in mischaracterizing religions;
taking local theisms as the essence of religion itself, and for focusing on the
negative aspects of religion in the form of an "argument from
benefit" in the reverse.
But the topic raise is very relevant to the Atheistic
Philosophical tenet of Materialism-Scientism…obviously, putting them in a weak
position.
Atrocities
of Religion?
Yes, people can and do bad things in the NAME of
RELIGION, but so do many non-religious people.
Most of them forgot to regard that atheism is in fact a
belief in itself, a belief in its own right, and can be dogmatic in which is
equally destructive to religious fundamentalism. History already witness how
millions of innocent human lives was taken away in the NAME of GODLESS BELIEF,
take for example ‘communism’ nurtured by philosophical Materialism:
Religion is one of the
forms of spiritual oppression which everywhere weighs down heavily upon the
masses of the people, over burdened by their perpetual work for others, by want
and isolation. Impotence of the exploited classes in their struggle against the
exploiters just as inevitably gives rise to the belief in a better life after
death as impotence of the savage in his battle with nature gives rise to belief
in gods, devils, miracles, and the like. Those who toil and live in want all their
lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth,
and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the
labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth,
thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as
exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in
heaven. Religion is opium for the people. [Vladimir
Lenin, 1905]
From Lenin to Stalin from Hitler to Pol Pot, all these
men perpetrated atrocities under the hubristic godless belief and regard a
person as a mere complex biological machines like with all the other objects in
the universe. Rendering Pol
Pot
position as correct:"Since he is of
no use anymore, there is no gain if he lives and no loss if he dies"
so it is not surprising to hear an Atheist stating like this:
Jae Arroz Negarde value,
worth, meaning... as far as nature is concerned you are worthless, meaningless,
and of no value...
Translating “human value” into something
"physical", “empirical/material” and "measurable" like
capacity or functioning, thus making all humans not equal, relegating a
selective human race into a being Subhuman than
the other which in return reducing the existence of these inferior race under the discretion
/ judgment of the Higher Superior Race :
‘higher race subjects to
itself a lower race . . .a right which we see in nature and
which can be regarded as the sole conceivable right,’ – [Hitler 1933 Nuremberg
party rally]
‘we [the
Nazis] must understand, and cooperate with science’. – Hitler
Soiled under the Godless belief sustained by Materialism as their philosophical nutrient:
‘ . . . in
their political system, with nothing left out . . .. Their
political dictionary was replete with words like space, struggle, selection,
and extinction (Ausmerzen). The syllogism of their logic was clearly stated:
The world is a jungle in which different nations struggle for space. The
stronger win, the weaker die or are killed . . ..’
- [Sheila Tenenbaum on Nazi Philosophy as incorporated Darwinism]
Sad to say, Hitler ordered to kill Jews just to
eliminate and to weed out the subhuman and impure races.
But it is typical for Atheists to say that these men
are not doing (mass killing) in the name of atheism but instead it is a pure ideology
of communism.
Well, a real practicing communist did not agree with
them:
"a materialism which
is absolutely atheistic and hostile to all religion" (VI Lenin, 'The
attitude of the workers' party towards religion' Selected
Works Moscow 1952, Vol. 2, p663). To call oneself a Marxist and at the
same time to believe in god is not just a personal contradiction, but a
philosophical absurdity. Marxism without atheism would not merely be
inconsistent, but fundamentally self-contradictory. – Communist
Party of Great Britain
And if they were still in denial on this fact and
insist that it had nothing to do with, and were not in any way derived from,
atheism; saying that no single Atheist impose his/her Godless belief to the
other; it is then rightly to post here what they missed at all:
In 1967, Enver Hoxha's
regime conducted a campaign to extinguish religious life
in Albania; by year's end over two thousand religious buildings were
closed or converted to other uses, and religious leaders were imprisoned and
executed. Albania was declared to be the world's first atheist country by its
leaders, and Article 37 of the Albanian constitution of 1976 stated that
"The State recognizes no religion, and supports and carries out atheistic
propaganda in order to implant a scientific materialistic world outlook in
people."
The Party focused on
atheist education in schools. This tactic was effective, primarily due to the
high birthrate policy encouraged after the war. During holy periods such
as Ramadan or Lent, many forbidden foods (dairy products, meat,
etc.) were distributed in schools and factories, and people who refused to eat
those foods were denounced. Starting on 6 February 1967, the Party began a new
offensive against religion.
According to Hoxha, the
surge in anti-religious activity began with the youth. The result of this
"spontaneous, unprovoked movement" was the closing of all 2,169
churches and mosques in Albania. State atheism became official policy, and Albania
was declared the world's first atheist state. Religiously-based town and city
names were changed, as well as personal names. During this period
religiously-based names were also made illegal. The Dictionary
of People's Names, published in 1982, contained 3,000 approved, secular names.
In 1992, Monsignor Dias, the Papal Nuncio for Albania appointed by Pope John
Paul II, said that of the three hundred Catholic priests present in Albania
prior to the Communists coming to power, only thirty survived. All religious
practices and all clergymen were outlawed and those religious figures who
refused to give up their positions were arrested or forced into hiding.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Hoxha
And no one can forget the League of Militant Atheists (Society of the Godless / Union of the Godless) an atheistic and antireligious organization
of workers and intelligentsia that developed in Soviet Russia:
Guided by Bolshevik
principles of antireligious propaganda and party's orders with
regards to religion, the League aimed at exterminating religion in all its
manifestations and forming an anti-religious scientific mindset among the
workers. It propagated atheism and scientific achievements, conducted
'individual work' (a method of sending atheist tutors to meet with individual
believers to convince them of atheism, which could be followed up with public
harassment if they failed to comply) with religious people, prepared
propagandists and atheistic campaigners, published anti-religious scientific
literature and periodicals, organized museums and exhibitions, conducted
scientific research in the field of atheism and critics of religion. […]
The League had
international connections; it was part of the International of Proletarian
Freethinkers and later of the Worldwide Freethinkers Union.
The League was a "nominally independent organization
established by the Communist Party to promote atheism." It published
newspapers, journals, and other materials that lampooned religion;
it sponsored lectures and films; it organized demonstrations and parades; it
set up antireligious museums; and it led a concerted effort telling Soviet citizens that
religious beliefs and practices were "wrong" and "harmful",
and that "good" citizens ought to embrace a scientific, atheistic
worldview.
In 1929, the Second
Congress changed the society's name to The Union of Belligerent (or Militant)
Atheists. At this Second Congress of Atheists, Nikolai Bukharin, the editor of Pravda,
called for the extermination of religion "at the tip of the bayonet."
There,
Yaroslavsky also made the following declaration:
It is our duty to destroy every religious world-concept... If
the destruction of ten million human beings, as happened in the last war,
should be necessary for the triumph of one definite class, then that must be
done and it will be done.
The League of Militant Atheists aided the Soviet government in
killing clergy and committed believers. The League also made it a priority
to remove religious icons from the homes of believers. Under the
slogan, "the Storming of Heaven," the League of Militant Atheists
pressed for "resolute action against religious peasants" leading to
the mass arrest and exile of many believers, especially village
priests.
By 1940, "over 100 bishops, tens of thousands of
Orthodox clergy, and thousands of monks and lay believers had been killed or
had died in Soviet prisons and the Gulag."
The LMG had reduced the
number of religious communities of all faiths from 50,000 in 1930 to 30,000 by
1938 and 8,000 by 1941. The last figure includes, however, 7,000 communities in
the annexed western territories (so that only 1,000 actually remained in the
rest of the country).
These are Facts … Atheism is a hostile dogmatic belief
that took tens of millions of innocence live nourish by the deadliest Materialism tenet.
Photo credit: http://blogs.umsl.edu/news/2012/09/24/opposing-views/
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