|Philosophers while having a discussion by Michael Angelo|
Pinoy Atheista [W]e want empirical proof. […]
Above is an excerpt from exchanges I made to an atheist named Pinoy Atheista (a friendly, and broadminded person) in an FB Forum I am in, the topic talks about proof for the existence of God.
[Postscript: Everytime I’m dealing with them, I prevent myself from pulling biblical verses to make the argument not to be having sounds like making a Sunday sermon (a common complaint by atheist to theist); also why appeal to things that they didn’t know and didn’t believe? (Thanks to Prof. Budziszewski) I believe Prof. Budziszewki is correct to say that in engaging a discussion to a friendly secular people (Atheist(s) in particular), bible is not enough, though we do not hold back the bible’s truth; we can find ways to express this biblical truth apart from the bible itself.]
Thecatholic Point Sir if i'm not mistaken i mentioned before the existence of metaphysical truth which cannot be put into an empirical verification BUT we hold it as true... is it also possible then that God's existence be True since not all truth are empirically verifiable but TRUE? Knowing it is TRUE using other way of verification?
Pinoy Atheista Like what?
Thecatholic Point like what? hmmm let me give a good sample Do you believe in the laws of logic? Do you think that if a = b, and b=c that a = c? I’m sure you do. And yet, there is no empirical evidence that such laws exist.
The problem is not a lack of evidence for God’s existence, but an arbitrary restraint on the kind of evidence the atheist (like him) is willing to accept as evidence. By reading his assertion, an honest mind can posit that he’s trying to point-out that Matter is all that exists PERIOD. There is no God because we cannot see Him. God does not exist because we cannot detect them physically by any means of verification we’re aware of.
Clearly, we cannot be wrong to say that Materialism and Scientism is the cornerstone of the atheist’s worldview, some mistakenly seen these precept as mere ‘Science’, an assertion that science itself does not posit, it's true yes, that Science claim a true knowledge in so far as a thing is physical and measurable BUT it doesn’t say that the physical world is all there is - science never postulates as such. Thus it is cogent to say that it is a self-refuting premise.
In the end though we agree that we need evidence, Empirical evidence is not the only kind of evidence one can appeal to.
The discussion is very diverse, it shifts from one topic to the other; one Atheist open an issue about the atrocities of Religion as an Anthropology and Sociology Jack David Eller observed: […] their (Atheists) focus on the dangers of theism, as opposed to the falsifying of theism, which results in mischaracterizing religions; taking local theisms as the essence of religion itself, and for focusing on the negative aspects of religion in the form of an "argument from benefit" in the reverse.
But the topic raise is very relevant to the Atheistic Philosophical tenet of Materialism-Scientism…obviously, putting them in a weak position.
Atrocities of Religion?
Yes, people can and do bad things in the NAME of RELIGION, but so do many non-religious people.
Most of them forgot to regard that atheism is in fact a belief in itself, a belief in its own right, and can be dogmatic in which is equally destructive to religious fundamentalism. History already witness how millions of innocent human lives was taken away in the NAME of GODLESS BELIEF, take for example ‘communism’ nurtured by philosophical Materialism:
Religion is one of the forms of spiritual oppression which everywhere weighs down heavily upon the masses of the people, over burdened by their perpetual work for others, by want and isolation. Impotence of the exploited classes in their struggle against the exploiters just as inevitably gives rise to the belief in a better life after death as impotence of the savage in his battle with nature gives rise to belief in gods, devils, miracles, and the like. Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth, thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven. Religion is opium for the people. [Vladimir Lenin, 1905]
From Lenin to Stalin from Hitler to Pol Pot, all these men perpetrated atrocities under the hubristic godless belief and regard a person as a mere complex biological machines like with all the other objects in the universe. Rendering Pol Pot position as correct:"Since he is of no use anymore, there is no gain if he lives and no loss if he dies" so it is not surprising to hear an Atheist stating like this:
Jae Arroz Negarde value, worth, meaning... as far as nature is concerned you are worthless, meaningless, and of no value...
Translating “human value” into something "physical", “empirical/material” and "measurable" like capacity or functioning, thus making all humans not equal, relegating a selective human race into a being Subhuman than the other which in return reducing the existence of these inferior race under the discretion / judgment of the Higher Superior Race :
‘higher race subjects to itself a lower race . . .a right which we see in nature and which can be regarded as the sole conceivable right,’ – [Hitler 1933 Nuremberg party rally]
‘we [the Nazis] must understand, and cooperate with science’. – Hitler
Soiled under the Godless belief sustained by Materialism as their philosophical nutrient:
‘ . . . in their political system, with nothing left out . . .. Their political dictionary was replete with words like space, struggle, selection, and extinction (Ausmerzen). The syllogism of their logic was clearly stated: The world is a jungle in which different nations struggle for space. The stronger win, the weaker die or are killed . . ..’ - [Sheila Tenenbaum on Nazi Philosophy as incorporated Darwinism]
Sad to say, Hitler ordered to kill Jews just to eliminate and to weed out the subhuman and impure races.
But it is typical for Atheists to say that these men are not doing (mass killing) in the name of atheism but instead it is a pure ideology of communism.
Well, a real practicing communist did not agree with them:
"a materialism which is absolutely atheistic and hostile to all religion" (VI Lenin, 'The attitude of the workers' party towards religion' Selected Works Moscow 1952, Vol. 2, p663). To call oneself a Marxist and at the same time to believe in god is not just a personal contradiction, but a philosophical absurdity. Marxism without atheism would not merely be inconsistent, but fundamentally self-contradictory. – Communist Party of Great Britain
And if they were still in denial on this fact and insist that it had nothing to do with, and were not in any way derived from, atheism; saying that no single Atheist impose his/her Godless belief to the other; it is then rightly to post here what they missed at all:
In 1967, Enver Hoxha's regime conducted a campaign to extinguish religious life in Albania; by year's end over two thousand religious buildings were closed or converted to other uses, and religious leaders were imprisoned and executed. Albania was declared to be the world's first atheist country by its leaders, and Article 37 of the Albanian constitution of 1976 stated that "The State recognizes no religion, and supports and carries out atheistic propaganda in order to implant a scientific materialistic world outlook in people."
The Party focused on atheist education in schools. This tactic was effective, primarily due to the high birthrate policy encouraged after the war. During holy periods such as Ramadan or Lent, many forbidden foods (dairy products, meat, etc.) were distributed in schools and factories, and people who refused to eat those foods were denounced. Starting on 6 February 1967, the Party began a new offensive against religion.
According to Hoxha, the surge in anti-religious activity began with the youth. The result of this "spontaneous, unprovoked movement" was the closing of all 2,169 churches and mosques in Albania. State atheism became official policy, and Albania was declared the world's first atheist state. Religiously-based town and city names were changed, as well as personal names. During this period religiously-based names were also made illegal. The Dictionary of People's Names, published in 1982, contained 3,000 approved, secular names. In 1992, Monsignor Dias, the Papal Nuncio for Albania appointed by Pope John Paul II, said that of the three hundred Catholic priests present in Albania prior to the Communists coming to power, only thirty survived. All religious practices and all clergymen were outlawed and those religious figures who refused to give up their positions were arrested or forced into hiding. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Hoxha
And no one can forget the League of Militant Atheists (Society of the Godless / Union of the Godless) an atheistic and antireligious organization of workers and intelligentsia that developed in Soviet Russia:
Guided by Bolshevik principles of antireligious propaganda and party's orders with regards to religion, the League aimed at exterminating religion in all its manifestations and forming an anti-religious scientific mindset among the workers. It propagated atheism and scientific achievements, conducted 'individual work' (a method of sending atheist tutors to meet with individual believers to convince them of atheism, which could be followed up with public harassment if they failed to comply) with religious people, prepared propagandists and atheistic campaigners, published anti-religious scientific literature and periodicals, organized museums and exhibitions, conducted scientific research in the field of atheism and critics of religion. […]
The League had international connections; it was part of the International of Proletarian Freethinkers and later of the Worldwide Freethinkers Union.
The League was a "nominally independent organization established by the Communist Party to promote atheism." It published newspapers, journals, and other materials that lampooned religion; it sponsored lectures and films; it organized demonstrations and parades; it set up antireligious museums; and it led a concerted effort telling Soviet citizens that religious beliefs and practices were "wrong" and "harmful", and that "good" citizens ought to embrace a scientific, atheistic worldview.
In 1929, the Second Congress changed the society's name to The Union of Belligerent (or Militant) Atheists. At this Second Congress of Atheists, Nikolai Bukharin, the editor of Pravda, called for the extermination of religion "at the tip of the bayonet."
There, Yaroslavsky also made the following declaration:
It is our duty to destroy every religious world-concept... If the destruction of ten million human beings, as happened in the last war, should be necessary for the triumph of one definite class, then that must be done and it will be done.
The League of Militant Atheists aided the Soviet government in killing clergy and committed believers. The League also made it a priority to remove religious icons from the homes of believers. Under the slogan, "the Storming of Heaven," the League of Militant Atheists pressed for "resolute action against religious peasants" leading to the mass arrest and exile of many believers, especially village priests.
By 1940, "over 100 bishops, tens of thousands of Orthodox clergy, and thousands of monks and lay believers had been killed or had died in Soviet prisons and the Gulag."
The LMG had reduced the number of religious communities of all faiths from 50,000 in 1930 to 30,000 by 1938 and 8,000 by 1941. The last figure includes, however, 7,000 communities in the annexed western territories (so that only 1,000 actually remained in the rest of the country).
These are Facts … Atheism is a hostile dogmatic belief that took tens of millions of innocence live nourish by the deadliest Materialism tenet.
Photo credit: http://blogs.umsl.edu/news/2012/09/24/opposing-views/